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Revision as of 13:16, 25 Apr 2005; view current revision
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Pigs Don't Sweat

I put up our first use of Flash in the site, a link to a movie Sven and I did this weekend. The structure of it all will probably change, the style I mean, but I justed to get it up and in real quick. I'll pretty up in the near future, particularly as we'll be doing more of this kind of thing in the future.

The basic thinking, however, is the little flash doohickey with some motion, you click that and it takes out of TubSpace and into VaporSpace, where the actual file is hosted on a page of it's own. This is the best way I could think of doing it for the moment. I'd like to eventually have the file load into a Tub page, for instance in this instance it would something like Fun Facts Media: Pigs. The structure would probably have a big table in the middle, all black, which would hold the file. And then the bottom would the usually tubbinations, see also etc. Thoughts?

Good Lord & hot damn altogether: this is wonderful... it really explodes the possibilities... By the way, sven, yr performance is kinda creepy to watch while eating breakfast...

Exactly Sorta

Funny that Adkins definition no 2 for owl was about a coin because I had chosen to upload a pic of a coin with an owl on it but was interrupted(at work today). Feel free to override any pics for I am using a shitty freeware graphic-software so am not making art as much as doing grunt table formating work et al. Thank for your patience. Vogeler

we are all online at the moment, go here and sign on: http://www.100megsfree4.com/stimso/psh.htm ...we can chat real time

Fun Facts

Any way we can get Vogeler's Fun Facts with a different font, or a logo os some sorts? Something zippier? I love the reproduction Zodiac placemat, but was wondering what you all though about Tim roughing it up a bit, like he did with the Accidental Action calling card. adkins.
Not to step on Payne's toes, but I was already planning on making one along the lines of those Zodiac placemats you find in Chinese restuarants. I might even just scan one in as start and collage it up. As for the fun facts, yes, we're gonna do a photoshoot for it eventually, some graphic goohawin'.
Wouldn't be taken as on a step on the toes here. I'm excited to see what you come up with. - Payne 19:54, 22 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Tubsters

I was chatting with Sven about the site the other day and it was suggested that a basic table be put forth that we can copy and paste from when creating new entries. It is is here -- BasicTable. This is your essential guide to creating new personages. Just copy the code and slug into the blank spaces and either delete reference to the picture or replace it. Golden! I'd also kinda like to see this format on other entries too, if they are fat enough. Thoughts?

Adkins: Agreed. Especially useful would be a definitive format for glossary entries. I think they're more or less consistent but not entirely. Also good would be a Style Guide which addresses all these questions in one place: ie See Also uses bullets, Desiderata uses a colon, how to make tables etc. We toyed around with this way back but went at it piecemeal. If we can put all this info onto one page "Strunk and White" style we'd be flying high. Rock on.

Payne: Likewise agreed. I dig the basic table. I'd set up the same thing on my desktop. I expanded some of the subheadings so that we can hammer out how to format multiple Known Works, etc.

Still Payne: Perhaps instead of the Basic Table, it should be the Basic Personage Entry? Then we could set up others, like a Basic Glossary Entry. If we wanted to go nuts, we could actually set these up so that they show the code (rather than showing what the basic page looks like). That way we could just copy the code straight out of the page instead of going to Edit the page each time. (I'll try to create an example.) Plus, this would let us put these pages into their own category (e.g., Category:Style Guide). Just some thoughts.

Still, still Payne: When thinking about a style guide - worth a quick look: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style

This Night's Poetry Award Goes To

Meat sometimes appears on the horizon -- a hundred years apart!

Awright

Ok, I was hoping to scare you guys away, and it didn't work! Regardless, the upgrade to version 1.4 is a complete success -- in so far as I can tell. You may have run into some problems if you were trying to edit during the process and I hope no work was lost.

That said, I'm not sure how the new features are doing -- an image gallery ( i think it will only deal with images uploaded from this point on) and the timeline. Gonna go fiddle with that right now to see if it's working. So, all is keen!

Tub on you delicious bastards!

Bah! Seems to be some residual weirdness. Looking into it.

hey t - look forward to checking out the new features! i hopped on in the middle of some upgrading weirdness & had some weird shit happen. wanna take my ip address off the two 4/16 postings when you get a chance? - d

HOT DAMN! only been on for a minute or two, but searches work like the Unseen Hand - may not sound like much to get excited about, but it's gonna make it way easier to get around, cross-reference, "fact check", etc.

Getting Fucking Real

You are all Poob, sick fucking shit ass Poob. I maintain this site in the way Associationalists have always maintained Zoos -- looky here, at the fucking sick shit these fuckers are up to -- ha!i'm gonna fucking puke. Let me go. Now. Move quietly. Poob Death is your game, and I'm only playing so much as I'm not. Get it?

Poob Out, bitches. And don't complain when the fucking glove comes down.

What the hell's going on? I don't have to log on anymore? New logo? No more checkbox for minor changes? - payne

Fun Facts Rock

That is some geloscopic medicinating that is a typical horror shot of me fun factin' n such

Personages Subcategory

I'm skeptical of this, frankly. It doesn't seem this is worked out to the extent where we can start plopping folks into slots. I'd rather see it develop more organically. My two cents. Also, I'd like to be careful about the naming of categories -- such as to avoid a category name like "Places", which to me is rather shabby. Once we start pluggin things into a category, there isn't really a way back out, right?

On further thought, the trend in my thinking still lay essentially in improving the text. Further organization without this feat seems unproductive -- but then I could be wrong and that's why it's a collaborative gig here.

Also, I apologize for not upgrading the wiki this weekend. I will the next, I promise!

Organization is perhaps not a priority. I see a lot of slow additions here and there, as if evidence is really being uncovered, which gives us an unpredictable beast. I'm not so amped on subcategories, really. Just an idea that as you say, at this point might be counterproductive. Also, regarding the Places category, that too is something that's probably worth shifting back into the glossary. Or both. Places, bah. Weird shit that crops up after a few bruces. Anyway, I'm not going to make any additions in that regard, cats, etc. Just going to focus on text.

Poob

Am I to assume noone else wants to kick in on the very shabby Poob voice overlay script (http://plastictub.vaporslave.com/index.php/Talk:Poob_Culture)?

still....not there yet (for me to enter into that), but keep on by all means. so far so good i think.

looks like a good start. did you have a some specific footage in mind? that might spark some more creativity for scripting. also - i'm going to upload a few posters that we could present as advertisements for a free adult ed. class for "The Poob Amoung Us." i'm not sure how to best work these into the sight, but i think they're great images.

Desidarata

I'd really rather not start putting Known Works into the Desiderata area -- mainly because it's needless work to change all the pages to that format, as having it slipshod wouldn't do! And besides, an empty desiderata area simply means it's a work in progress. Shifting around work already accomplished won't fill gaps, only move gaps around. Pictures need to be placed in that area, also, perhaps mulitple pictures, sound files, whatever we come up with in the future.

A Note on Flash

Ok, Alden got the flash working and it looks like it's good to go; however, it's tentative -- I wouldn't go fiddlin' with it just yet. I'm not sure how compatible it's going to be with the new build, with our other formatting, etc. I'm gonna run it through the mill and see how it reacts later tonight. But think of the potential! We can now have inline video, animation and sound! Rock!

I have an idea for the logo. Can we Flash animate it so that the text rotates clockwise, the hands counter, and the chaos arrows once-again clockwise. Perhaps when the main page is loaded it could do this, maybe haltingly, switching directions, before settling into where it is. Simple and lively, but is it too corny?

A brief word

Tim, I agree with everything here. Tightening up in all regards, for organizations, loose ends etc. I'd definitely like to take a crack at the timeline. This has always been tough for me, because I flip back and forth thru pages to keep things consistent, and its pretty inefficient. I would add that if you do add new works or expereinces for a major character, check their bios first....this is pretty much for Dave, though, so maybe I can shoot you a quick list of the major players. Just to orient you a bit. Tim, regarding Cappy, he's okay. Some time back I made a Cappy and Copernicus split. Copernicus is the Kook Kontemporary, and Cappy is a recent fellow. All part of the ancestral shipping feud plot I've been injecting into the story. (see Xenophon Aliokrate). Cappy is an descendant.

Also, I want to subdivide the personages section into something, perhaps: Members, Antagonists and Non-Participants. Ideas on the nomenclature or the number of subcats?

Subdividing the personages is an excellent idea, tho disagreeably hard to realize. It'd be a good idea to start with the fewest number of subcats, and then work out from there. One problem is that several people have a shakey affiliation (Balthazar Buehb, Creatine Panderbox, et.al.). Could the cats be somewhat nonsensical? Like White, Gray, Black? Here, There, Somewhere? The Good, The Bad, & The Ugly? God-fearin', Big Nosed, and Lesbos? Dammit - this is hard...

I'm down for a triad of subcats: 1. AA'ers and Fellow Travellers (?), 2. Antagonists and 3. Clampers. The first would be fairly straightforward. Panderbox would be an AA'er, despite her lapse and treachery. Buehb migh fall into the antagonist's cat but always with a kind of caveat. Clampers would involve all scholars and commentators not directly associated with the movement. Harder to peg are the historical personages, which, come to think of it, might be another subcat (4.) Others may seem pertinent but I think four cats are enuff to classify the characters in such a way as to be immediately identifiable to a reader, like, oh: this is an enemy. I see the coonnection here. etc. Further subtlety would be given by the text itself. Of course, the names and number of subcats, including the actually sense of the division is not solid and you may have some better ideas. This is a tentative proposal. Without being too complicated, we can at least at a mareker of sorts. Friend. Foe. Hangers On.

As for publicity, I think yr right, Tim. It will come and really, the later the better. We have some work to do. The front page....I dunno. I saw you were working with an image of the day on the sandbox history, tim? I was all for propmotion at one time but we can wait some more.

The societies will get worked out with a timeline, I hope. I have an idea of how they relate, and have been trying to link things thru family lineage or student teacher lineage or any manner of things. Obviously we have antagonistic societies dating back to the Renaissance, active in Italy and France mostly, before ending up in the USA. Morris was involved in some way, with a criminal band....the criminal band finds itself expressed with Koose, Tommy the Bookie, etc. Is it possibly an offshoot of that earlier gang? Certainly, the AA enemies have links to these families, sometimes on an unexpected side. Finally, these dueling groups have religious practices hostile to one another. The Fancy Gloves, Cancerous Mask, AA, Morris Gang, Italian Composer, Choco axis is locked in combat with the Pinque, Gnomes, Aliokrate empire, Mormo axis. Something like that. I'd like to see how that plays out.

Anyway, them's a few thoughts.

As always, I'm proud of this project and glad to be having such fun with you fine fellows.

Flash Goodnes

Flash stuff looks great, Tim. This is exciting because i caught a little 16mm footage of a art critic (from the early 70's no less!) just before the film melts- awesome 40 seconds. prob is I have too many torrents open last night to due nessecary upgrade's to my video capture program. AS soon As i get home -As soon as I get home ...

Hoochie Cooch

First of all, hell yeah, welcome on board Dave -- I've been meaning to reply to your email, but I'm just lazy fucker. As it it, I couldnt' more happy to have you here in the Tub, particularly given that you very apparently have a talent for it; your entries have been awesome. I will further Adkin's advice by saying again, hell yeah, do some proofing of the material, we need it, and by all means keep adding whatever fits your fancy. His advice in this matter is indisputable -- I will add, however, that attention to structure is slack around these parts and any attention to give thusly will no doubt improve the whole.

Secondly, as updating for the timeline, yes, I will do this soon. I want to say this weekend, but I'm not sure -- One never knows the problems that can occur with an upgrade, but this build seems to have generated little chatter, so that's a good sign. Other features, such as a picture gallery function, have been added to the latest build as well. Anyone interested in what's going on with wiki, or learning it's intracies, simply click on their logo at the bottom right of every Tub page. For instance, we should start using templates, sub categories and all manner of organizational bits and bobs. Read Wikepedia, see what they do -- we can ape alot of that shit to good advantage.

Thirdly, as to promotion. I don't think a show of physical artifacts is in order, at least not at this time. What would we show? More interesting, is beefing up the site's appearance, particularly the front page, continuing efforts to tie it all together, etc -- these things are out greatest promotional effort, IMO. The Tub isn't going anywhere, we have time to keep whacking at it, I'm convinced attention will come eventually. That said, I've been hesitant to start any kind of campaign to gain attention because I felt the site wasn't really ready -- perhaps I'm wrong in this regard. I have a problem with the main page, but not entirely certain what to do about it. I guess I prefer working on the content and presentation regardless of whether anyone else is reading our shit; process and product hopelessly comingled in a kissy face punch-up.

We need a timeline, yes, but more important is keeping shit straight. For instance, Cappy can't have produced something in 1966. He was contemporary with Kook, Slippers, Guvenor. The people dont' fit together at all -- everyone of importance, the core members, have all migrated up about thirty years -- they were early proto-modernists, now they are 50's-60's jokers. Some even produce work today! That strikes me as inconsistent. Adid and the early crew surely would have fallen silent by the mid 80's? It begs the question, perhaps in many entries speaking of Addisson, they speak of his son or something. At any rate, the chronology is whacked, and yes perhaps the timeline will fix that.
There are many unanswered questions, unresolved issues. I'd like to see those tackled. What the fucks up with all the societies, for instance? The unrelateed murders, conspiracies, et al? I guess it seems to me to have moved beyond Associationalism, or rather, Associationalism revealed itself as part of something much much larger. What is that something? Etc.

Anyhoo, you've got a fire under our britches, Dave, and that's a fine thing. You even dragged Sven back into the recent changes page, which unto itself is cool. The Tub gets better every time one of you touches it, so make with the touchin'!

Ah lastly, was talking with a friend at work, Scott Alden, and I think he may just help me to get flash enabled on the site -- which would rock so hard I can't even begin to describe.

Right on Welcome Aboard

Wow I had no idea i was away as long as I was, Sorry my tubskills are extremely rusty. Welcome aboard Payne, what an exciting time. the contenet should emass at a quicker rate

Thanks, man - this stuff's like crack. i've found my mind wandering to it while biking into work, watching the sopranos, etc., etc...

General Kudos

Payne, I'm glad yr aboard. You've slid right in there with some good stuff, yout caught on quickly. Sven! Good to have you back my man. It hasn't been the same without you. Tim, rock on!

A note on the style, the frontpage, the story....

Zander says that a good whisky is maron clear, beau aux lèvres - and that is what we shall seek.

On Images

As a note on imagery and copyright, I found this today, which is sweet, sweet: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Here's a good source for early images (maps, photos, drawings, paintings, etc.) relevant to early american history. there's an good series of revolution era maps, for example. it's a bit tough to navigate and find stuff, but there's gold in them thar hills. virtually all the older stuff (e.g., pre 1922) is free from copyright restrictions (the site has more detail on that): http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html

here are a couple goodies i found on the site listed above:
- http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?rbpebib:4:./temp/~ammem_It0Y:: (Counterfeit national bank notes warning info, probably passed to banks... December 1898)
- http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/wpaposters/wpahome.html (posters WPA ~ 1936-43; i'm uploading a few for the adult ed "The Poob Amoung Us" course)

Here's another good source of pics: http://gimp-savvy.com/PHOTO-ARCHIVE/index.html -- Payne 22:18, 24 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Timeline

I'm gonna try my hand at a timeline based upon people first, slugging in important events next, perhaps with some other historical markers thrown in. Can this be done in columns?

Timeline functionality is being worked out in the latest builds of Mediawiki . . . presently, it's an extension and looks like the examples here: Timelines (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/EasyTimeline). Is that what you have in mind?

This is as good a place to start as any. I'm gonna fool about here: AA Timeline

Update: Not as simple as it seems. I cut the code directly from the sample and tooled about but it didn't create a timeline graphically. ?

I think I have to upgrade the software for this feature to work. I just rolled out of bed, and I have the upgrade, but I want to back everything up and keep it cool. I'll likely upgrade later today or tomorrow, and that timeline you created should automagically work.

Secondly, can we edit the "frame" so that there's an email contact or a link to a contact page? I'm wondering if we've had visitors who haven't edited but might have something to say to us.

By frame, do you mean the sidebar to the left? I could add it there, perhaps, but maybe we can just sprinkle it in the about section? contact links could be placed on the front page as well. But what would you have, all of our email addresses?

Yeah, I was thinking sidebar, but the about section is smarter. I thought we could include all or just one email addy. I'll put mine on the about page....

 any progress on updating to allow the timelines? (i can't figure out if these posts are date-stamped, so i'm not sure if the discussions above were yesterday or last year...) i made a minimal effort to dink around w/ the code, but it still seems unworking. this could be a really cool feature, tho hard to keep updated.
 it'd also be nice to have some sort of geographic display/organizer - not sure if such a thing exists.

Desiderata

desderita looks way cool how does it look with several entries? I am learning how to get images up. hurray. hows about my Photoshop job, shabby? yes. mission accomplished ? yes sir what next? you tell me. keep spermentin' ya hear

i think that image needs to be fixed
yeah it i am a bit rusty if i was ever oxegenated anyway. that face gen stuff is fun. I was really just trying to learn the code stuff. that code to the Desderita sidebar stuff looks pretty meaty. did you find it difficult?
I assume you're being sarcastic. At any rate, I did the Addisson entry as well. I rather like how it cuts up the page, particularly if the desiderata section was fat. It only requires putting in an html table. On further thought, it would be amusing to use this desiderata section to have a small portrait of every guy at the top, like the sidebar functioned like the back of a sports trading card.

Adkins here. Yeah. I like the Desiderata sidebar. It gives the pages a better look. More dynamic. (yow, I'm an art critic all of a sudden) Anyway, adding a pic could be cool too; I'd like to see it tested out, because it looks pretty cool now as well. Trading Cards? Hell yeah....love to see that idea. Get a pack of five in a foil wrapper! With gum. That is totally do-able.

The recent spate of image-adding is really cool, btw. Nice work chums. Any final words on how to categorize pubs and other media? I'm game for anything, really, as long as we get to it.

As you know, we do a lot of cruising for sp errors etc and I've seen a few regulars we should keep an eye on before hitting the edit button. Not to be a dick but just for future reference and we'll save ourselves some time. Desiderata. Look at the top of this section and you'll see what I mean. Thier should be "their." Immediatly retains the e: "Immediately." Thurstenwell could always be an alternate spelling, but on his page he's "Thurstunwell." Just some things I've corrected a few times. Hope I'm not out of line.

Tim here. I don't think you're out of line with the spelling stuff, btw, I'll keep that in mind. Their has always been my achilles belly. As for the category question on pubs, I'm ok with Extant Works, though I'll probably never give up my fondness for the more plodding Works in Extent -- slug in whichever you think is best, I'm cool with that. The imagery is so-so -- I must confess to being the authoritarian editor in this matter, I don't think the last few can stand. Using AP photos is a no-no, and the pshops for Tommy and Nevid are somewhat lackadaise and need eventually to be replaced. What do you think, Adkins, of the timeline and the eventual lockdown of material? Also, are you indeed going to put up the Greenbook?

Whew. I didn't want to come across self-righteous on the spelling thing. Mormo knows I'm just as guilty. Also, I'll start on "Extant Works" then. Yeah, those Nevid and Tommy photos need some work. They're funny as hell but too obviously...false. :) Some obsfucation may do them good. I'm more stoked to see more images than the images themselves, but you're right to be authoritarian: Quality is imperative. I cut the AP photo. I'm glad you called that out because I had to check the AP site and was pretty sure I was in the wrong. Too bad cuz that photo is awesome. Perhaps we can find some public domain stuff? The timeline would be a very useful tool, whether in text or (better) graphic form. It would help us to square all dates and to help us link personages. For example, Attucks needs to be linked to Morris and Kook, but could also be involved with Slippers and Biberoni. By clumping the names together we could have easy access to all in their proper time for making accurate Associations date-wise and also flesh out relationships vis a vis common events and historical context. I recoil timidly but really it wouldn't be so tough. How do you think a timeline would work best?

Greenbook will be up, but it's still got a good chunk in analog form to be recorded. Granted, your idea of scanning pages would be best but a) that's a long haul and b) I don't know if I want to see my sub-mental scrawl on display to the world. hehe. Overall, though, what's your take on the overall development of the Tub? I'm pretty much stoked but feel a need to "infill" some of the basic personages, especially to give them their due. There are now more post-Tub personages than Primer personages, who I'd like to see stand out more, those who would qualify as members of the AA in the terms you described a bit ago. There are also a host of concepts and ideas which need to be explained once and for all. I really don't feel I'm the best qulified and would like to see you and Sven tackle that. I feel more comfortable with anecdotes and biography. But above and beyond I'm pretty proud of this here Tub. I'm guaranteed chuckles and even guffaws each time I read the new stuff. (pats self on back)

I rather like the Tub's current incarnation with but a few reservations -- the main being what you've mentioned, the paucity of information in regards to the Core Membership. That and the lack of depth; the jokiness is fine and good, but it loses itself in whimsy, there is no effective counterpoint. If The Tub continues on it's present course without deviation, it'll be little more than a collection of interlinked gags and rim-shots. So then, while I like what's happened tremendously, in my opinion a shift is needed. With this is in mind I propose the following:

Emphasis on formatting, with an eye towards greater complexity and increased intercontexuality. For instance, this would include little asides, "info-slugs", a sidebar, increased pictoral content and the homogeneity of the current subsection structures, etc.
A lock-down on new entries, or in the very least, a severe restriction on such. This would be in order to focus more attention on the short, underveloped entries. This needn't preclude whimsical additions, however -- one simply works new material into existing structures, the trick is find the wiggle room for insertion. This could be perfect for a Desiderata sidebar, like the indian bandit guy could easily be a sidebar on Ritual Shoplifting, Gnomes, etc.
Stylistic consistency -- main sections shouldn't read like Soluble Fish or Et Tu, Babe -- that sort of gaffing belongs in subsections. (I want to amend this thought -- most entries are perfect in this sense. My point is only the keep in the mind the encyopledist's hand.)
The front page needs to be entirely reworked -- it should be a proper splash page, in the marvel comic sense, rather that a staid listing.

Hello Sven here. I just tubbed in tonight and have to say yuor discussion will save me lots of unnecasary questions. I have to say the main reason i added the last few people was because we had no one whos nwme bgan with an L so i kinda did it for alpabetation's sake. Nuff Said bout my PShop but i was really just funnin and learnin. I did not expect them to last anyway. phone wont stop be bac

Some Stuff

What do you guys think of this formatting?

big problem

Hoho, point taken! I don't think the quote is entirely incorrect, because in the Tub we speak of AA ideas and personalities, divisions, etc; but never the The AA itself as a formal organization. It's not, for example, in the "groups" category (yet). Like we could say Reticent 27 is the official mouthpiece of the AA, but isn't it the magazine itself which is an organization, as well as the various clubs, etc., but no real center? ....I concede however, that certain elements become meaningless without the assumption of a core, such as the conferences. I propose a more detailed development of this history. At what point was the AA in fact formed after Adid and Addisson began to promulgate their ideas in magazine form? The Tub is so far silent on this point, which ceases to be unusual if you view the AA in the light presented in the quote.

To be honest though, I hesitated to add that bit and wasn't really happy with the way it came out, so again, your point is well-taken and the paragraph needs to be either removed, modified or worked into an amusing debate. One academic camp goes one way, another goes another....

Yes, I'm with you on this one. Some knuckin' down must occur on this matter. A timeline should also be created. We can do nothing but plod on, I suppose, though we could make a more concerted effort to flesh out the fundamental concepts. I have a hard time elucidating them in print, however, despite my ability to vocalize it. It's hard work. 8)

found this on the AA entry:

Although we speak of "The AA" and "AA'ers," it should be noted that "AA" has never represented any formally chartered or established group as such, but a group of individuals and groups so-chartered, bound together in a loose affiliation based on shared ideals and cameraderie.

This is entirely incorrect. Without proper understanding of this point, the tub seems worhtless. There is and was a group of affiliated members who are the AA. Without such, every reference point for the tubopedia is dries up and renders all else pap-less and shite.

Just sayin'.

as per the below, no, no category, but it would be great to add a list of phrases for a style guide

Late

including:

it is said that
it is thought that

Yeah, no category necessary but it would be amusing to extrapolate on the "stock-phrases" in the Style Guide we need to create....

I just wrote this i wonder if phrases like "a kind of" could somehow be tagged -- and thought would be it be:

helpful
amusing
proper

to link such word-jinks to a category? Something like Turns of Phrase? In this category we could put stuff like:

researchers say
studies show
though thought otherwise
by means of
moving in tandem with
understood as
thusly
etc

Another Query

What do guys think about renaming the category Publications as Works in Extent, or something thereof, perhaps even, as Vogeler suggests -- bibliography?

The problem, I think, arises from categorizing songs, ballet and film in publications. Thoughts? The category is small enough now to go in an change shit withoug much fuss -- so we should settle on it.

Yeah, I held off on adding publications to many things because of that reason. I suggest "Known Works" or better, Sven's suggestion. "Bibliography" seems the logical choice, as it is all all-encompassing and accurate.

I think that we should go with "Extrapolation" as a subhead.

Finally, take a look at watermelon, where I quoted a news article. This doesn't seem to be "Usage" as i've labelled it, but something else; What do you think of creating a "Sightings" subhead where we can stick quotes from the "real world" which use the word in an amusing or startling context?

And fucking-a(a)! What a flurry you've all been up to. Great stuff!

Coolio on the extrapolation. But isn't bibliography specific to books? Or . .?

Shit, you're right! Oops, my goof. "Works Cited" is a bit much...."Archives"...."Mediatheque and Library"...."Library"? "Known Works" Maybe subcategories is it: Sound Recordings, Film and Video, Books, Magazines, Journals, Newspapers.....no, too many possibilities...what about "Publications & Multimedia"? Library might be good....Media Lab? It's actually a rather tough nut to crack....

A Query

What do you guys think of the Extrapolation subsection? I rather like it as a method of furthering comment outside the main thrust of an entry, particularly in the case of the glossary. Now, it is a mix of:

Further Extrapolation

(which is redundant)

and simply,

Extrapolation

Should we go with the latter or dream up another term for this substructure?

I'm gonna create a glossary category and begin popping stuff in. It's a rather extensive list; I'm starting at the top....

UPDATE: OK, all items are in the glossary category from the original page. Pretty much all the New pages need definitions. They only exist now because they have the category link.

Style guide suggestions

I created the category "publications" which may need to be similarly subdivided by groups pro and anti aa or into journals, books, newspapers etc.

Query: Are subsections to be demarcated with one line or two?

Ok, gang, I've added a category called personages. The code for this, to be added at the top of the page, is [[Category:Personages]]

This will slug it into a neat little package, automatically alphabetized. This means we don't have to manually add jack shit when we dream up some new entity. Of course, this goes for all categorizations to be made in the future. So, all personages need this code added to them and then we can just link off the front page directly to the category.

I would add, however, that a subcategory is probably needed -- such as Second Generation, or , Latter-Day -- or in the very least, we could break them down as Poobs, Clampes, Chimps, Honeybees, Accidentalists, etc etc etc. Thoughts?

Also, I've started doing the See Also section like this:

Desiderata

He has sandwiches in all of pockets.

The code for which is just a colon and a space.

1. I think all new pages should include at least one link to an active page, i.e. no dead ends. I think it improves flow and causes us to stretch, thus fleshing out the story with anecdotes, etc. An entry on "organ grinders" would inevitable involve Flintrock's riotous "lost-weekend" in Mexico City, 1955, thus serving both to facilitate the flow of traffic with a relevant link and create yet another bit of Flintrock's history. He was there to study Mayan petroglyphs and fuck for a dollar and a ten cent beer etc. He met Burroughs in a Bar and....

I totally agree and have been trying to do this but one can always go further.

2. I wonder if we shouldn't comingle the quotes and the glossary sections? They seem to overlap a great deal and it would make for fatter, more dense reading. It's a bloaty category to be separate anyway.

3. I agree. Bring the quotes and glossary section together and create a "Works" section with a list of all the texts from films, peoms, plays etc.

Discussion relating to Plastic Tub development.

Ok, the pre tag won't let you do italics or bold, etc. So I did Stimes: A Remembrance Based On Association, Not Truth, Thus True.

with a different kind of format. Perhaps the pre tag should be dropped. (doh!) Formatting poetry in wiki is pain in the ass.

Ok, I put up a text tonight using the _pre_ tag. Dreams of a False Nose -- you can look at how it was done, easy peasy. The pre tag gives it a dashed box, typewriter font and preserves the original formatting. Cut and paste, basically. I suggest we do all our 'known works' like this.

Slight? You talkin' bout the style guide thing or did I miss sumpin? Naw man, tis well rec'd on my end (see vapslav post for further details)

Hey gang, not intending to slight anyone if that is how it came off with my (looking for word..) Stupid and ill-prepared Post to Vaporslave. I cannot thank you guys enough for all the spelling corrections and format,link repair. Not to mention the inspiration. That initial blast was exhausting and I feel I may need to fuel up again lest i blow a block and bring down a public mailbox(W.A.S.T.E.). Cant wait to discuss the places this thing should go. count me in.

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Plastic Tub:Community Portal

From Plastic Tub

Pigs Don't Sweat

Exactly Sorta

Fun Facts

Tubsters

This Night's Poetry Award Goes To

Awright

Getting Fucking Real

Fun Facts Rock

Personages Subcategory

Poob

Desidarata

A Note on Flash

A brief word

Flash Goodnes

Hoochie Cooch

Right on Welcome Aboard

General Kudos

A note on the style, the frontpage, the story....

On Images

Timeline

Desiderata

Some Stuff

big problem

Late

Categories

Another Query

A Query

Further Extrapolation

Extrapolation

Categories

Style guide suggestions

See Also

Desiderata

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